Several people I know wear full-face helmets. Those things freak me out and I can't wear them longer than a few minutes. Can't get those things off soon enough. Hmm. Since I am in there all by myself, does that mean I'm freaking myself out? No. it's the helmet. A person can't really breathe in there. This person can't anyway.
The question has come up whether a DOT and/or Snell approved 3/4 helmet with a face shield, when worn with all the other standard motorcycle safety gear, qualifies one as an All The Gear All The Time (ATGATT) rider. Thank you, TJ and Brother Bear, I needed a topic for today, since Wrex is in the motorcycle hospital and about to be abandoned by his heartless, vacation-bound doctor.
I think a Snell/DOT 3/4 helmet is safe and surely better than nothing. I am aware it leaves jaw bones and chins imperiled. Perhaps I only think that it's safe because I can't stand to wear a full-face helmet.
Do heavy Levi's qualify as ATGATT gear? I feel safe enough in my jeans, but then Wrex is a different animal than a 2 wheeler. Denim doesn't give you much protection after all. Perhaps denim gives me a false sense of safety, as I know it doesn't take much pavement to grind away jeans.
Ray used to wear Draggin Jeans, which at least had some abrasion protection, but now he has a pair of armoured Flex Pants he likes very much and which should carry him through the year. I guess that puts Ray higher on the ATGATT scale than I am, even though he too currently wears a 3/4 helmet.
We will not get into one of my favorite rants, the failure of Active or Sport clothing manufacturers to recognize the needs of short, fat ladies, or indeed fat ladies of any height. And probably overweight men are also seriously neglected by the same manufacturers.
Is there an ATGATT scale? Is a person either ATGATT or not, no degrees of ATGATT-ness? What constitutes ATGATT?
I think ATGATT constitutes a DOT/Snell approved helmet, motorcycle gloves, motorcycle boots, armored jacket and at least heavy jeans. What do you think?
18 comments:
Motorcycling is choosing to sacrifice some safety to gain some entertainment. If people want to be accepted for their choice to ride they should be willing to accept others whose safety / entertainment curves lead them to choose different gear.
I prefer RYOR: Ride Your Own Ride.
Well, yeah, everyone should ride their own ride. That's why i get so far behind on the curvy parts, I'm riding at a pace I'm comfortable with, which is slower than Ray is comfortable with.
And yes, everyone who motorcycles had better be aware of the risks.
But no, I don't think people who ride without protective gear are lesser beings. They are simply more careless of their lives and hides than I care to be. I did not mean to give an impression that I think they are lesser. A person with funny wheels on her funny bike cannot afford to throw stones.
There is some wisdom in what TJ says and it kinda falls into the mantra of "Everybody Dies, But Not Everybody Lives".
I also believe in riding your own ride and although I've always thought that applied more to riding within ones skill set, but, I suppose it could be stretched to include ones bike and ones gear.
As for DOT helmets equaling ATGATT, I don't think so as many half-helmets are DOT rated. A 3/4 face helmet is only 3/4 geared-up and not ATGATT, IMHO. Many studies have shown that fully 50% of motorcyclist head injuries are to the jaw and face. If you are wearing a 3/4 face helmet your jaw and face are still exposed, so you are not ATGATT Susan, even though you like to think you are. However, to TJ's point we all have an acceptable level of risk we are willing to accept.
The helmet debate will rage on as there are those who feel that helmets cause more harm than good. I think they are wrong, but I understand why they feel that way. Freedom, it's a good thing.
Brother Bear
By RYOR I mean "make your own choice." Don't let others force you into a pace you're not comfortable with. Don't let others force you into (or out of) gear you're not comfortable with.
If you understand the risks you should be free to wear whatever you want. The only person you're effecting is you.
Bro Bear, I've seen that same statistic and graphic. I know my jaw is at risk. I had been thinking only of Wrex being overturned, but now that I contemplate, I can see that if I bashed into some idiot who pulled out in front of me when he/she should not, I might well be ejected from the saddle and fly away from Wrex's squat stability, thus landing on my chin.
But I just can't wear those full face things! Ray is thinking about getting one....
So, you do think there are degrees of ATGATT-ness. Interesting.
AFAICT, TJ just wants to be left alone to ride as fast/slow as he wishes, wearing what he wishes or doesn't wish to wear.
Ah, but TJ, saying you only affect you, there you are wrong. Should anything happen to you, whether riding, running, commuting or visiting the ATM, your wife, your parents, your grandparents, your aunts and uncles, your co-workers and employer would all be impacted. Your choices always affect more than yourself.
Don't we have an obligation to those who love us and depend on us to take as good a care of ourselves as we can?
Don't we have an obligation to those we love to allow them to enjoy their lives?
The people in that list (except my employer) can voice their opinions and I’ll take that into consideration. Weight their opinion, and adjust my behavior accordingly.
But honestly 95% of the risk I run is borne by me, 4.5% by my wife.
Don't you think it depends on how much of a burden she considers widowhood to be....or caring for a paraplegic the rest of her life?
Yes, which is why it's 4.5% not 0.1%.
LOL!
But TJ, don't you know that Pride goeth before a Fall?
This has been the classic motorcyclist safety debate. I can amplify by adding that I expect, TJ, that your wife may value the equation differently. I know that my wife is much more at ease when she is on the bike with me rather than when I'm alone on the bike. She seems to think that when I'm alone that I ride more aggressively. Silly girl.
Personal choice and personal responsibility are opposite sides of the same coin. One may elect to ignore one side or the other, but they are nonetheless joined.
Now as to a comment Susan made about not wishing to ride as fast as Ray.... if you cannot ride the same speed as the normal flow of traffic you are putting yourself and others at great risk, which is very irresponsible. Here is an example.
Terri and I have ridden friends of ours, AC & TJ, on some lovely Wisconsin two-lanes. Although these roads are quiet rural roads to us from the big city, they are major highways to the folks who live there. The posted speed is 55 and the locals want to drive 60 - 65. Well, try as I might to get AC to ride at a reasonable speed, I could not. From time to time AC would have as many as 6 cars stacked up behind him. It was very frustrating. To make matters worse when he noticed the line of cars he would move to his right and wave the line past. I could have choked him. When asked why was he riding this way and putting himself, his wife and us at such risk, AC simply said that JT did not like going over 50 mph and if they (the line of cars)want to go faster, they can pass me, I'm riding my on ride.
No man is an island. Our actions have consequences. RYOR, but ride responsibly.
Brother Bear
Excuuuse me! I did not say that I did not drive the speed limit, or that I don't keep up with the other traffic.
I said that Ray likes to do the curves faster than I do, at least when they are slow tight curves. When they are big sweepers, I'm out there going as fast as Wrex will go, and Ray's chugging along a quarter mile or more behind.
I am in no way endangering other people by not "keeping up" with the traffic flow. There is no reason I should go through posted 30 mile an hour curves at 45 mph if I am not comfortable or feeling safe doing so. Ray can do it if he wants, TJ can do it if he wants, you can do it if you want.
I'll hang in the back, ride my own ride, and get to the end of the curves in my own time.
BTW, neither do I hold up traffic like your friend did.
When there is a car or two behind me on the open highway, I pull off the road as soon as I can, to let them pass, if they want to speed and I don't. I have no problem pulling over so I don't delay people who want to speed. I see nothing wrong in doing that.
WA law says you can't delay more than 5 vehicles, but I don't like to delay even one.
Here in town, on the clogged highways, I drive the same speed as everyone else, which on I-5 is officially Hell-Bent-For-Leather.
Your friend needs to train his wife, just like Ray trained me to enjoy higher speeds. I didn't used to like 35 mph. Now, show me a mountain highway full of 70mph sweepers and I'm gone!
Golly Susan, you make Wrex sound like Fozzy Bear's Bus. I'll just mozy along until I get a line of cars behind me and then I'll pull off the road and let the speed demons rush by. NO Sister, NO! If you are going so slow that you are stacking cars up behind you, you are going too slow. If you are uncomfortable going any faster, take a different road.
Your comment about taking the curves more slowly that Ray I understand and agree with, but don't drive so slow that you are a hazard!
Oh, and as far as the WA law entitling you to stack up 5 cars, yeah, good luck with that.
Brother Bear
I don't drive so slowly that I am a hazard! Stop making problems where there are none.
Clearly this conversation isn't changing anyones mind, much less behavior, so I'll end my participation with...
1) I *have* spoken with my wife about this topic. Long before this blog post. Please don't assume I haven't thought through my actions.
2) All choices have consequences. If I felt my choice of safety gear had a significant impact on other peoples wellfare (outside of those I've already consulted) I might feel differently.
You are right about what you wear and the risks you choose to take. I know you talked with your wife long ago.
You are also right about this conversation being in a rut. Some people won't listen.
But it was interesting and lively for a while!
In as much as there are only three of us participating in this particular discussion and Sue and TJ have kissed and made up, I must then be "Some People". Your message has been received, loud and clear.
Brother Bear
Brother Bear, if you had made an attempt to listen, we would not have had to give up on you!
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